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Author Topic: Isaac Haines #81  (Read 1103 times)

Offline FlintNSteel

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Isaac Haines #81
« on: January 16, 2020, 12:05:00 PM »
While I have several rifles that are historically correct replicas of a school/period, I did not have one that was a copy of an actual remaining rifle from the time.  So, about 3 years ago I started the process of working with Dave Person to replicate the Isaac Haines #81 in Rifles of Colonial America. 

Now, there are two known differences in the copy Dave has completed for me.  First is the barrel length.  One of my goals was to have a hunting rifle of reduced weight.  The original Haines has a 45" barrel.  I already have two rifles with 44"  swamped barrels and another with a 42" swamped barrel, so for weight reduction, I choose the Rice 38" swamped .54 caliber that is in many Haines kits.  Frankly, as the build went on and I saw what  Dave was putting together, I kind of regret not just having at least a sleek 44" swamped barrel on this one, but by the time I was thinking that, it was WAY too late.  So this one is 38", which ought to handle really nicely. 

The second is the beaver tails at the back end of the lock mortise.  For some reason on #81, Haines did kind of a short and fat version which is not really seen on his other rifles.  Neither Dave or I liked that, so this rifle has beavertails in line with what is found on other Haines rifles.

The original is not on display and is in a museum vault, so we had to go by the pictures (Dave has personally handled several other original Isaac Haines rifles).  There is no picture of the bottom of the buttstock, and we could not tell if this particular rifle had a toe plate or not.  Dave advised that the other Haines he had handled had a toeplate, so he did install one and engraved it with a design that Haines commonly used, so this may be a third difference to the original...we don't know.

For those of you that may not be familiar with Dave Person, he is an exceptionally gifted 3rd generation gun maker who is very, very historically astute and has a passion for quality and correctness.  He is in Vermont and posts on a couple other traditional muzzleloading sites.  He not only builds, carves, and engraves, but he also makes some of his own tools and parts. One of the tools used on this gun had been passed down from his grandfather and is originally from the 1800's!  The finish is scraped, not sanded, just like on originals of the period.  On this build he first studied Haines' carving and engraving "style" including evidence of what kind of tools he may have used and then used the same kinds of tools to try to get the most authentic look he could.  That's how detailed Dave is.  The lock work/tuning he does is very impressive as he does his best to get today's locks to the level of quality of the finest English locks of the day.  He sits on about a 3 year waiting list.  An exceptionally good person to work with and if you have the patience and can wait, you will get an exceptional product from him. 

I don't have the rifle yet, but it is complete and just awaiting a final finishing wax by Dave, so it should be here sometime this month.  It's 7 below zero here this morning, so I'm not going to be shooting it much anytime soon anyway!!!

I'm posting info and pics from Volume 1 of Rifles of Colonial America so you can compare them to the end result.  Hope you enjoy them.

The OLD:









The NEW:















"The farther one gets into the wilderness, the greater is the attraction of it's lonely freedom."  Theodore Roosevelt

Offline doc nock

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2020, 01:18:00 PM »
That is one fine looking shooting stick! :)

No disrespect meant by the term...  ::)

It's grand you have the expendable funds to invest and the time to wait for such a fine, fine weapon...

At this advanced age, it's not happening...but I can appreciate the workmanship in such.  I'm more form follows function in my personal taste but I can truly look on such artwork and admire the talent and time it takes...

Kudos!

Online goingoldskool

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2020, 05:33:48 PM »
That's a solid looking piece!   Very nice work.

Offline Terry Lightle

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 07:27:26 PM »
Beautiful

Offline Keith Zimmerman

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2020, 06:57:00 PM »
Very nice!  I think I would have went with the 44in barrel and added a double set trigger.  I love the longer barrels.  I just picked up a David Dodds .50 with a 50 3/4" barrel.  And am in the process of a .62 smoothie with a 51" Hoyt barrel built by a friend of mine.

Offline FlintNSteel

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2020, 08:26:18 PM »
Thanks for the compliments. 

This will become my primary big game rifle.  While I'm careful, I don't baby them.

All my current rifles have set triggers I never use.  The original did not have them and I don't use them.  Dave advises this one has no play with a pull of just under 1.5 #.  I think I'm gonna like that!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 08:27:39 PM by FlintNSteel »
"The farther one gets into the wilderness, the greater is the attraction of it's lonely freedom."  Theodore Roosevelt

Offline doc nock

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2020, 10:03:05 AM »
Mike,

I like light triggers on more modern guns, but have little experience on smokepoles... You're not the only one who embraces a single, well-tuned trigger... there are others here who advise similarly...

IME the time the lock falls, strikes the frizzen, ignites the pan, then the main charge is more then enough to pull off sights, unless one develop exceptional follow thru and core body strength.

I wish you well with that gorgeous gun!  Accuracy is important and I'm sure it'll do well for you... Best wishes!  :thumbs:

Offline Monterey

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2020, 08:04:47 PM »
That's a wonderful piece of work.  You are fortunate to have that rifle headed your way.

I was looking at those same beavertails a couple months ago and thought maybe an apprentice had erred.
Mike Lee

Offline vtmtnman

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2020, 11:52:34 AM »
That's a suberb piece.I've seen a lot of Daves' work on ALR.He is damn good.

I really need to get the RCA books.

Offline Rob DiStefano

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2020, 12:27:15 PM »
Beautiful work, Mike, just gorgeous!   :thumbs: :thumbs:

I'd be afraid to go afield with such a work of art! :o :)
Trad Gang ~ Buffalo Rifles ~ TMA ~ NRA ~ NRA RSO ~ GOA ~ VCDL

Offline FlintNSteel

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2020, 12:28:41 PM »
I really need to get the RCA books.

I would highly recommend them for any builder that wants to read about and learn the history of a wide range of schools/styles and the builders that made them.  Non-builders who just love the detailed history of these fine firearms would also benefit.  While I wish the pictures were high quality color photos, they are helpful as is.  I have used them to determine proper features of different kinds of rifles.   As an example, my next build is going to be a scaled down rifle for my wife who is rather short.  I'm going to be starting with the Chamber's Little Fella kit which is based on the Berks County School.  I learned that Wolfgang Hachen, who came to the Colonies from Switzerland, was the original gunsmith in the settlement of Reading, PA in Berks county.  Of course his son Christian is the father of Jake and Samuel Hawken.  The architecture of his firearms was somewhat different than what is now recognized as the Berks.  Various features such as the shape of the comb and sideplates morphed.  Through a large number of pictures of real Berks rifles, one can view all those features to see what goes together and try to make an accurate representation.  Interestingly, the sideplate that ships with the gun is not appropriate to the pre-shaped comb that has an arch from front to back, it is correct with the earlier Hachen architecture that had a straighter comb not too much different than a Lancaster.  Now, many people would care less, and that's perfectly fine, but if a builder wants to build historically correct rifles, it's a great resource to study.   :thumbs:
"The farther one gets into the wilderness, the greater is the attraction of it's lonely freedom."  Theodore Roosevelt

Offline vtmtnman

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2020, 01:28:06 PM »
Is there decent coverage of Bucks county and Lehigh county schools in them?I'm very interested in those two.I'll still get them anyways,just curious.

Offline FlintNSteel

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2020, 02:58:01 PM »
Is there decent coverage of Bucks county and Lehigh county schools in them?I'm very interested in those two.I'll still get them anyways,just curious.

Volume 1 contains the Lehigh and Bucks examples.  Lehigh is from pp 237 - 258 and covers rifles #56 - #61.  Bucks is from pp 259 - 278 and covers rifles #62 and #65.   

Volume 2, Chapter 10, pp 365 to 392 has a number of rifles where they are not completely sure of origin but there are more "thought-to-be Lehigh rifles in there.
"The farther one gets into the wilderness, the greater is the attraction of it's lonely freedom."  Theodore Roosevelt

Offline vtmtnman

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Re: Isaac Haines #81
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2020, 12:47:15 PM »
Is there decent coverage of Bucks county and Lehigh county schools in them?I'm very interested in those two.I'll still get them anyways,just curious.

Volume 1 contains the Lehigh and Bucks examples.  Lehigh is from pp 237 - 258 and covers rifles #56 - #61.  Bucks is from pp 259 - 278 and covers rifles #62 and #65.   

Volume 2, Chapter 10, pp 365 to 392 has a number of rifles where they are not completely sure of origin but there are more "thought-to-be Lehigh rifles in there.

Good deal,thanks for looking for that.Not sure if I want to take the project myself or have someone build it but will be great to plan out what I want.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 12:47:50 PM by vtmtnman »