Black Powder Gang is all about the firearms, and their times and people,
that use "black powder" (known back in the day as "gun powder")
as the propellant for muzzleloading and cartridge guns of the 18th and 19th centuries.
Tapatalk has been added to BPGang for all mobile phone users!
About Traditional Muzzleloaders

19th Century Single Shot Cartridge Rifles

Loading Black Powder
Paper Patched Bullet Cartridges
Snapshots of the Past

The American Sharps Shooters

The Denny Ducet Muzzleloader
Video Library


Author Topic: gun stock woes ...  (Read 1818 times)

Offline Rob DiStefano

  • Administrator
  • ****
  • Posts: 677
  • Location: NJ
gun stock woes ...
« on: October 08, 2018, 10:47:33 AM »
the jackie brown smoothbore initially arrived with a number of visual and not-so-visual issues.  learning about how returns to jackie could yield an even worse firearm, i elected to not go that route.  the biggest problem was the hidden touch hole liner set of issues that's now well resolved.  the first external glaring issue was the butt shape ....

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

... what in the world is that weird shape?  why convex and not flat or concave??

so i hacked it off ...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

... and fitted a home made leather boot with a kick kiler akton gel shock absorber ...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

the bare wood butt plate yields an LOP of 13-1/8".  what i think i'd like to to is replace the kick killer boot with a more "period correct" sheet brass butt plate, and maybe increase the LOP with a 1/2" or 3/4" slab of wood ... comments, please?

Online doc nock

  • BPG Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • Location: TN
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2018, 11:32:19 AM »
Rob,

You know what I know is spit in the ocean, but I was reading on TMA site that their series of 'shoots' no recoil pad is allowed...

If it's a tad too short, then by all means, lengthen it, but if it suits your body frame, just getting a piece of iron or sheet brass for a wide straight butt cut seems to be acceptable... you wanted a barn gun...

Offline Rob DiStefano

  • Administrator
  • ****
  • Posts: 677
  • Location: NJ
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2018, 11:50:01 AM »
...
You know what I know is spit in the ocean, but I was reading on TMA site that their series of 'shoots' no recoil pad is allowed...
...

where is that TMA rule located?

Online doc nock

  • BPG Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • Location: TN
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2018, 11:53:25 AM »
where is that TMA rule located?

You ask a computer dummie such? :):)

I was poking around their website and found something on matches (postal or otherwise?) but how I got there or where specifically---you MUST be kidding! ;D :D ??? :wavey:

Online doc nock

  • BPG Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • Location: TN
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 08:38:12 PM »
NOTE to all readers:

Dave burped... aka Doc Nock...

I went back and tried to retrace my steps and could NOT find what I read or THOUGHT I read so any reader please disregard the comment made about butt pads...

I have a slip on my GPR and remembered thinking, "Well, there goes that group" which is silly since there are none of such groups anywhere near me... now I can't find it and I wrote and thanked Rob for pointing out and/or asking where I read that... I ruminated on it a while, so I must have BELIEVED I read that, but now it eludes me, so all the fine folks here should disregard my earlier post! Mia copa!  ??? ::) :-X

Offline Flint Gunsmith

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Mississippi U.S.A.
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 11:47:27 PM »
Rob you done a great job fitting the butt with that boot i would have done the same thing i would have had to hack it off as well looks great and as you say you can always fit it with a brass plate as well.

Offline Rob DiStefano

  • Administrator
  • ****
  • Posts: 677
  • Location: NJ
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2018, 05:14:56 AM »
 i think i'm just gonna screw on a 1/16" plate of brass and be done with it.  the LOP as it is now ain't bad.  with eyes closed and brought up to shoulder and aimed, she's purty good.

i've ordered out some 1/16" brass sheet and will try to go that route. 

fitting the sheet without messing up the finish should be interesting, but i think i can do it.  i'm going to try to anneal the brass and bend it over the comb, doing a comb inlet, then run the rest on the outside.  if i shape the comb part and inlet it first, then drop it in, i should be able to screw in the plate, lay out the butt area, cut it off with tin snips and fit it reasonably well. 

from this past friday's smoothie testing of the new and real white lightnin' liner ... she touches off purty fast now, i'm a believer in the REAL jim chambers white lightnin' liner ...


Online doc nock

  • BPG Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • Location: TN
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 09:06:46 AM »
Sounds like a plan, Rob!  Have at it! :thumbs:

Offline Eric Krewson

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Alabama
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 11:30:32 AM »
I have posted this before on other sites but face a similar delima as you have. In my case it is a very poorly shaped precarve with the lock mortise so low the pan is below the barrel flat.

I dropped the barrel a bunch but I was starting to lose too much wood around the tang to have the right architecture.

I was going to trash the stock and start over but I decided to see how invisible I can make a repair by adding wood to the lower lock panel.

I think with tannic acid, aquafortis to make the area very dark I can hide a glue line if I get my repair joint paper thin.

Here is what I  to start with, I did email pictures to the company that did the precarve to alert them to their poor work. Because I bought the kit second hand they have no responsibility in the matter and offered no solutions.


Offline Rob DiStefano

  • Administrator
  • ****
  • Posts: 677
  • Location: NJ
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 03:37:51 PM »
I have posted this before on other sites but face a similar delima as you have. In my case it is a very poorly shaped precarve with the lock mortise so low the pan is below the barrel flat.

I dropped the barrel a bunch but I was starting to lose too much wood around the tang to have the right architecture.

I was going to trash the stock and start over but I decided to see how invisible I can make a repair by adding wood to the lower lock panel.

I think with tannic acid, aquafortis to make the area very dark I can hide a glue line if I get my repair joint paper thin.

Here is what I  to start with, I did email pictures to the company that did the precarve to alert them to their poor work. Because I bought the kit second hand they have no responsibility in the matter and offered no solutions.

the lock mortise on the jackie smoothie is not good, but not that bad.  i worked on it a bunch last year and it works ok, and with the new chambers liner the ignition is pretty good, i think.  great thinkin' on yer part and it sure looks like you got yours fixed up real good!  :thumbs: :thumbs:

Offline JS47

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Location: AK, AZ
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 08:44:43 PM »
I don't know how things are now with kits but when I got started building muzzle loaders back in the 70's I spent a whole lot of time trying to correct the mistakes in the kits. It didn't take long to figure out that I was better off starting out with a blank stock. With the new machining technology I hope things have improved. I've been away from black powder shooting for almost 40 years, since roaming around in brown and grizzly bear country required something different, but am finding myself getting back into it again. What a whole lot of fun to look forward to!

JS
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 08:51:51 PM by JS47 »

Offline Rob DiStefano

  • Administrator
  • ****
  • Posts: 677
  • Location: NJ
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 06:54:10 AM »
there are more than a few kinda trad muzzleloader "kits", starting with the "screwdriver" offshore kits (yep, basically only need a screwdriver to assemble them, been there, done more of them than the fangers on me hands) all the way to the jim kibler CNC kits in which all the parts will sorta fit kinda well together, with minimal wood work to get the metal and wood parts to mate reasonably well, but more wood work will be required in *some* instances in order to get the parts to fit *perfectly* well together (yes, i'm assembling one right now).

in between are the "pre-carve" kits where the stock work is sorta kinda done, but will require a buncha wood work, mostly to correct all the mistakes made on the stock in the first place. 

in the long run, i hafta agree - it's best to acquire all the appropriate metal parts, and a plank of wood, and get it done right from the get go.  but not everyone has the tooling and/or skills to cut a barrel channel or chisel a lock mortise, let alone to align the critical areas of barrel, lock, trigger, touch hole ... then there's the barrel lug alignments ... there's a heckuva lot to all this muzzleloader building!






Online doc nock

  • BPG Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • Location: TN
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 11:23:19 AM »

in the long run, i hafta agree - it's best to acquire all the appropriate metal parts, and a plank of wood, and get it done right from the get go.  but not everyone has the tooling and/or skills to cut a barrel channel or chisel a lock mortise, let alone to align the critical areas of barrel, lock, trigger, touch hole ... then there's the barrel lug alignments ... there's a heckuva lot to all this muzzleloader building!

On the tools, skills and ability, you said a mouthful right there, Kemo Sabe!  :thumbs:

Offline JS47

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Location: AK, AZ
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 07:37:32 PM »
I found that once I got all the parts together what helped more that anything was to draw a full scale pattern with all the parts drawn to actual size and fit together as they would on the final product. Then it was just a matter of removing all the wood that didn't belong. ;)

JS

Offline Eric Krewson

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Alabama
Re: gun stock woes ...
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 03:58:32 PM »
I sent all my stock blanks for plank builds to Fred Miller to have him inlet the barrel and drill the ramrod hole, David Keck took over Freds business. I always got back perfect barrel inletting, a perfectly drilled ramrod hole and took it from there.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 03:59:25 PM by Eric Krewson »